Subject: Cider Digest #1449, 21 May 2008 Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:21:54 -0600 (MDT) From: cider-request@talisman.com Cider Digest #1449 21 May 2008 Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Contents: Re: Normandy trip recommendations? (Ben Watson) bittenfelder ("verlindetaal") Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008 (Lee Passey) Regular or SS taps for cider kegs? (Dick Dunn) Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008 (Roy Bailey) "Bittenfelder Saemling" (hvschablowsky@gmx.net) Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com. Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests. When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them. Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Normandy trip recommendations? From: Ben Watson Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 07:49:51 -0400 Pat Maloney wrote: We will also be going to the Cider Museum and Eau-de-vie/Calvados Museum in Volognes (http://www.mairie-valognes.fr/uk/museums.html) Are there any other "must-visit" places that anyone can recommend? You might want to check out Christian Drouin's website (www.coeur-de-lion.com). Drouin is one of the better-known estate cideries and Calvados makers, and they are located in Coudray-Rabut. They have two main brand lines --Coeur de Lion (which we can't buy in NH), and Marquis de Saint-Loup. I've sampled some of their old vintage Calvados, which is quite variable and interesting, depending on what year you're tasting. I also lik= e Drouin's ciders -- much better in fact than most other Normandy cidres that I've been able to try in the US (even the ones without breakage and unsightly scale). The Calvados is the main export item, but I think the cidre is available in some states at least -- last I knew somebody was representing it in Mass. Anyway, check it out. They do offer tours during the summer, and Christian told me a couple of years ago that he personally samples every Calvados barrel in the cellar during July and August -- I asked him how many samples that meant, and he said, "Oh, around 40 a day." Nice work if you can get it= . Ben Watson Francestown, NH ------------------------------ Subject: bittenfelder From: "verlindetaal" Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:19:24 +0200 According to Jack's question about Bittenfelder. For quite some years I graft on rootstock bittenfelder samling for a standard type of tree. It grows less strong as antonovka.To my observations there is less cancer in varieties prone to get it. Furthermore -and most significant- the developement of roots is better than on most other rootstocks. Only this winter I grafted Bittenfelder scions from the adress at the bottom. Next year I will graft on m27 to speed up the production of seed. I am going to grow it to harvest my own "organic grown'' rootstock material from the pips and probably good cider. And according to my sources i.e. W.Votteler : 'verzeichnis der apfel- und birnensorten' it is one of the best 'most' varieties in Germany. Vintage quality (to the german taste which is not in for high tannins), but 2 disadvantages 1 It takes many years to come in production 2 it needs good growing conditions to be productive. Dirk Taal djtaal@planet.nl ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008 From: Lee Passey Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:44:41 -0600 Pat Maloney wrote: > We will be traveling to Normandy for two weeks in mid-June. While my wife > works at a conference in Cabourg on the coast, I get to drive around the > countryside visiting cideries! So far I am planning to visit the Domain > D'Apreval Distillery near Honfleur and the Viard Cidery outside Bayeaux. > These are fairly substantial operations, it seems, so I was wondering if > anyone has suggestions for smaller, more personal experiences. Any place > where English is spoken is most appreciated! > > We will also be going to the Cider Museum and Eau-de-vie/Calvados Museum in > Volognes (http://www.mairie-valognes.fr/uk/museums.html) Are there any > other "must-visit" places that anyone can recommend? > > Cheers! > Pat We are leaving for France a week from Sunday. While in Normandy we will be staying at the Bed and Breakfast "La ferme du Clos Tassin" next to Omaha beach (http://titu.club.fr/clostassin/eng_index.html), which bills itself as a producer of cider, pommeau and Calvados. Also close to there in Formigny there is "La Ferme du Lavoir" which also produces cider. pommeau and Calvados (http://fermedulavoir.free.fr/). I can't say that either of these places are "must-visit", but I'm sure they are both excellent examples of local cider producers. I have no idea of the quality of their English, as I have always communicated with them in French, but I note that M. Gaillot at La Ferme du Lavoir also offers tours of the D-Day landing beaches, so I'd bet his English is quite good. We return from France on June 8, so I don't know if we'll be back before you leave. If I get online while there I'll post anything else I learn while I'm there about cider production in Normandy; otherwise maybe I'll post a mini-"trip report" upon our return. Bon voyage! ------------------------------ Subject: Regular or SS taps for cider kegs? From: Dick Dunn Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 02:06:45 -0600 Tim Bray asked: ... > ...I have a couple of salvaged 15-gallon > kegs, and am now trying to decide which kind of tap I need. All-stainless > taps are available, though somewhat hard to find, and more expensive than > the regular kind... I can't help with "more expensive", but as for finding them, both William's Brewing and Northern Brewer have them. (I've not checked other sources; I'm sure there are more.) While you're at it, the Perlick/Ventmatic type of tap is worth the money--the "forward seal" does make a difference. > ...Should I be concerned about the cider reacting with > the non-stainless parts of regular taps?... IMNSHO, yes! I have made it almost a religious quest that any material which contacts cider be stainless, glass, or for short-term, suitable plastic. >...It's not clear to me if there > is any brass in contact with the product, or if the contact parts are > all chrome-plated. I'm pretty sure I should avoid brass contact with cider. Open up a conventional tap; they vary. For a quick check, look at the back of the tap, where it attaches to the shank. But I've got a fairly standard one (no longer in use even for beer) which has bare brass parts inside. And you're right: brass + cider == badmagic. It is possible, with a little bit of hunting, to get everything in SS: tap, shank, tailpieces. The keg couplers seem to be SS throughout. - -- Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1448, 16 May 2008 From: Roy Bailey Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:05:10 +0100 In message <20080517021514.F0D928B779@raven.talisman.com>, cider-request@talisman.com writes > >Subject: Traditional Perry Pear Grafting in N. America >From: chris horn >Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:21:01 -0700 > >This may be a heck of a stretch but is anyone else in North America playing >with traditional grafting of Perry pears? By traditional I mean to use >seedling rootstock, interstem with Blankey Red to 6'-6" and then put the >wanted variety on there. When I started on grafting pear scions to produce an orchard of perry pear trees some 12 years ago, I was advised by a nurseryman to use pyrus communis (wild pear) for rootstock. This is a very large and slow growing tree, (see for some details. For smaller, quicker fruiting tress I was recommended to use quince rootstock, which I believe is used for most culinary pears in the UK. I have not gone down the route of double grafting, and my trees show no signs of the corkscrewing that you mention. >Anyone else playing with this? Am I off my rocker for playing with things >that will not bear for 25 years? Of course you are - and so am I! Wonderful, isn't it? There are far too many sane people in the world. Roy. - -- Roy Bailey - Proprietor The Lambourn Valley Cider Company (Real cider from the Royal County) ------------------------------ Subject: "Bittenfelder Saemling" From: hvschablowsky@gmx.net Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:15:37 +0200 "Bittenfelder Saemling/Seedling" is an excellent juice and cider cultivar - do not get mixed up with seedlings FROM Bittenfelder for rootstock !. Bittenfelder is known for frost resistance, good scab and mildew resistance and low susceptibiliy to fire blight. At its origin, close to Stuttgart, it is harvested late ( end of October) and needs favourable climatic and soil conditions to fully ripen its fruit. Bittenfelder trees on Bittenfelder seedling rootstock take a long time to come into bearing. A few nurseries in Germany offer Bittenfelder on MM111 rootstock for cider apple plantations. "Bittenfelder Saemling" scionwood is commercially available at Reiserschnittgarten Weinsberg GmbH Comburgstr. 31/1 D-74177 Bad Friedrichshall-Untergriesheim Phone +49 (0) 71 36 / 96 43 75 Fax +49 (0) 71 36 / 96 43 76 E-Mail: info@reiserschnittgarten.de http://www.reiserschnittgarten.de/impress.html Bittenfelder is mentioned for overall robustness here - with picture: M. Fischer GENETIC RESOURCES AS BASIS FOR NEW RESISTANT APPLE CULTIVARS Journal of Fruit and Ornamental Plant Research vol. 12, 2004 Special ed. http://www.insad.pl/files/journal_pdf/journal_2004spec2/full2004-3Aspec.pdf Analyses of Bittenfelder apple juice of 2 harvesting years show very good sugar and acid content results for Bittenfelder, 14 ° (year 2002) and 19 °(hot year 2003) Brix. see tables 10.1 and 10.2 in Christine Thielen - Author http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=978829743&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filen ame=978829743.pdf or: Christine Thielen - Author Characterization of juices of different apple cultivars http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18092099 A description of "Bittenfelder Sämling" written in German and taken from a well known apple variety handbook written by R. Silbereisen: http://www.tafelobst.ch/produkte/html/394.htm Cheers - -- ------------------------------ End of Cider Digest #1449 *************************