Subject: Cider Digest #1454, 12 July 2008 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:19:35 -0600 (MDT) From: cider-request@talisman.com Cider Digest #1454 12 July 2008 Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Contents: Bentonite fining (Andrew Lea) Re: Cider Digest #1453, 3 July 2008 (Sketchpub@aol.com) Sodium Calcium Bentonite (Warwick Billings) Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com. Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests. When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them. Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Bentonite fining From: Andrew Lea Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:46:01 +0100 Jeremy Kent wrote: > > > Hi, > Have anyone else used Sodium- calcium- Bentonite to clear hazy cider. If > so how is it appiled? Bentonite on its own is not good with cider. Reason being that it is negatively charged and intended to neutralise and deposit protein hazes which are positively charged. These are typical of grape wines but not ciders since apple contains very little protein compared to grape. Bentonite will most likely stabilise what haze there is. Also as a clay it is very abrasive to pump seals. If you must use bentonite then use it as a combination fining with gelatin. Details on my website (Science of Cidermaking Part 5). Better by far is to use Chitosan, or use Gelatin-Kiesesol as a combination fining. Kieselsol is now available as Blankasit from Vigo (since you are in the UK). Andrew Lea - -- Wittenham Hill Cider Page http://www.cider.org.uk ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1453, 3 July 2008 From: Sketchpub@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:58:07 EDT Jeremy, It is my understanding that you do not need to fine with Bentonite as there is no protein in cider. The cloudiness is more likely just suspended particles and are best removed by settling over time, or by filtration. Ron Irvine Irvine's Vintage Cider Vashon Island, Washington ------------------------------ Subject: Sodium Calcium Bentonite From: Warwick Billings Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 18:37:10 +0930 Hi Sodium Calcium Bentonite is wonderful stuff. Less lees (wastage) than regular bentonite, easier to mix. Apply by mixing the stuff in water and leave for a couple of hours. Somewhere in the 5-10% solution range is normal. Add to top of vessel while mixing - in our case we pour in slowly while stirring a drum, or have also racked onto slurry of bentonite, looking for very thorough mixing. Leave to settle and should all be much clearer. Rack off the clears and discard the bentonite lees. Experience with wine suggests that is not a good idea to re mix the settled bentonite or it can sort of get dispersed in finer particles that are hard to re-settle and will block filters. cheers Warwick Renmark, Australia ------------------------------ End of Cider Digest #1454 *************************